Predestination Pt. 2: Aren’t we all just SICK?

There have been some great comments to my first post on the topic of predestination.  However, there is one begging question…Where are the folks with a different view?  For the sake of discussion I want to throw out a question for response dealing with an aspect of predestination that is fundamental to our understanding. 

The question…What is the spiritual condition of a person outside of Christ (before they get saved)? 

I remember when I was young, going to church most every Sunday, I would hear the message of Christ preached with an appeal at the end for people to “get saved.”  Many times the preacher would say something like, “Just take the first step, and then God will do the rest,” implying we could and would take that step on our own.  The picture that was presented concerning the condition of man and his need outside of Christ, was that we all had caught a sickness called sin.  Thus we all needed medicine.  It was true that as “sick” people we were weak and needed help, but there was just enough strength left (just enough of our being not affected by sin) to reach up (or step out, or whatever) and choose to take the medicine that God had to offer. 

You’ve probably heard analogies similar to this.  One popular analogy used in this manner is that we are drowning, and God has thrown us a life preserver in Christ.  However, we can and must, on our own, choose to reach out and grab hold to be saved. 

These analogies imply that we can say “yes” to God on our own strength if we so choose.  God will “give us the present, but we have to unwrap it.”

Are these analogies correct?  Is this what the Bible teaches about people outside of Christ?  Are they sick?  Are they drowning?  Is this the truth the Bible presents?  Can people, will people, choose Christ on their own? 

The answer to these questions will set the trajectory of your thoughts on predestination, if you are consistent in your thinking.  So what do you think?

PREDESTINATION !?!

In my first post, “There Is A Point After All,” I made it known that I was open to topics and questions to discuss.  Well, here’s a doozy…predestination…presented to me by a follower of Jesus who is trying to understand this doctrine.  Great discussion starter… and ender.  Of all the topics we could discuss this is one that often leaves people either not talking to you because they are mad, wanting to talk to you more because they are mad, or wanting to talk about the people on the other “side” because they are mad.  Why does this doctrine make people so mad? 

I think part of the reason people get so mad about it is because of the way it is often discussed.  Whether you are a Calvinist or Arminian, or somewhere in between (?), we have a tendency to look down on folks who don’t agree with us on this issue.  Our pride often shows when we talk about predestination because we are so quick to get snappy and offended as if the other person is attacking us personally rather than simply trying to come to terms with this subject.  (If they are purposely attacking you rather than the subject, end the conversation and find someone to talk to who actually acts like they love Jesus, loves others, and wants to understand the Bible.)  We often hit below the belt by quickly pointing out the extremes of each position, while often these extreme tendencies aren’t even characteristic of the person we are talking to or of their beliefs.  Acting this way is not okay, especially when talking about the Word of God as “mature Christians”.

So what is the answer to this problem?  The answer must be to discuss predestination (as well as any topic) in the context of Christian love.  Obviously this is an important doctrine to talk about because it’s in the Bible, and every doctrine in the Bible is important.  We cannot ignore predestination.  We must realize that it is healthy for us to wrestle with this doctrine and try to understand it biblically, not basing our views on man’s philosophy or wisdom, but on God’s revealed truth.  Therefore, all of our arguements must be from Scripture, properly understood and applied, using the best tools of interpretation and application available, and making sure we square each use of a proof text with the rest of God’s Word on the matter.  If we do this we will not only please God, but grow in our understanding of predestination.  However, it’s as we do it in a context of love that the way in which we study and discuss will be effected.  For if we all love God, then our goal will be the same, to know and glorify Him.  And if we all love each other then our method will be the same, speaking the truth without hitting below the belt or getting personal, and genuinely trying to help our brothers and sisters grow and change, while trying to grow and being open to change ourselves. 

These are the rules we will seek to follow.  The topic is on the table.  (Are we predestined?  To what?  When?  Why?  By whom?  Why does it matter?)  So what do you say?  Or should I ask, what do you think the Bible says?

Try this Study Bible for FREE!

For the month of March you can try out the online version of the ESV Study Bible for free.  Check it out at www.esvstudybible.org.  I am new to this study Bible, but so far it looks pretty good.  What do you think?

Faceless on FB

So I have a facebook account.  I gave in.  I caved to the pressure to step into the 21st century.  I will miss my cave paintings and stories by the fire, but now I can’t go back. 

Okay, I am being dramatic.  I do have a facebook account, but what makes my profile unique (if that’s possible) is that I have not posted one single picture for people to look at, not even a profile pic.  In a selfish way I kind of like being able to look at all my friends pictures and leave them with nothing in return.  Ha!

As I was thinking about my need to post some pictures (I have to be fair and I do want to show off my family) I was reminded that often this is the way we live life.  We seek to remain just another face in the crowd, not letting anyone really know or see the real us, while in the meantime we find out as much as we can about their lives and pick them apart with our self-exalting opinions.  This is safe for us.  We can be heard, but never really seen. 

There is one, however, that we can ‘t hide from.  One that knows our deepest secrets, most embarrassing moments, best qualities, how we think, how we feel, how we love…one to whom “no creature is hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare” (Hebrews 4:13, NASB).  The one is God, to whom we must all give an account.  He sees through the thickest smoke or the most dense crowd.  He sees it all. 

 I think this is the key to being able to be open with other people.  It’s when we realize that all of us are sinners, we’ve all messed up, and that our only hope is found not in being better than others, but in the grace of God, that are we free to move out of the shadows.  Then we can have relationships that are open and authentic as we stand on the level ground at the foot of the cross together, sinner with sinner, both saved by grace. 

I guess it’s about time to post some pictures of myself on facebook.  I know that people will see that I have gotten older, fatter, balder.  That’s okay though…because so have they.

What is a good study Bible?

I was recently asked to recommend a good study Bible to someone, and so I thought I would just share with everyone in case you would like to know as well (If you just want the recommendations, then stop reading and just skip to the end).  But first, you may be wondering what a study Bible is.  So let me tell you briefly.  It’s a Bible with extra stuff in it to help you understand what the Bible is saying.  Most study Bibles have a list of verses dealing with the same topic you are reading about to help you get a fuller picture of what God’s Word says on that topic (this is called cross referencing).  Most study Bibles have notes explaining the meaning of passages as well as explanations of key doctines, a concordance (to look up certain words in the Bible), maps, book introductions, tables, charts, etc.  The thing that you must keep in mind is that the study notes and explanations are written by men and women just like me and you, that means they can be wrong just like me and you.  So the key to a good study Bible is finding one that hasn’t been put together by some wacko with an agenda, but rather by someone who is sincerely trying to help you understand the original meaning of the text. 

It is also important to get a version of the Bible that is as close to a word for word translation that you can find, such as the ESV (English Standard Version), NASB (New American Standard), NKJV (New King James Version), HCSB (Holman Christian Standard).  Some versions out there have been translated thought by thought rather than word for word such as the NIV (New International Version) and the NLT (New Living Translation).  Not that there is anything evil with these versions (for the most part they are fine), but if you are wanting to seriously study the Bible it is better to get a word for word translation so that what you are reading is as close to the original text as possible.  For you see, when you read a thought for thought version, someone has already been interpreting the Scriptures for you as they choose how to best communicate the Biblical thought for our day.  You avoid this with word for word translations (as much as can be avoided in translating something).  There are also paraphrases out there such as The Living Bible and The Message.  These may be useful for simply reading the Bible, but are not suitable for study or building doctrine upon.

I would also add that I would seek to get a study Bible that is more doctrine driven than devotional driven.  You can always supplement your Bible reading with a good devotional book if that is what you want.  Then you can take that devotional and understand the doctrine behind it more deeply with your study Bible. 

Finally, remember study Bibles are meant to be aids to help you study, not take the place of you doing the work of looking up verses and studying on your own.  And I wouldn’t get too attached to one person’s writings or one particular study Bible or commentary, it is good to use a wide variety of sources so that you can more clearly see if someone is off in left field.  Be sure you read with your eyes open.  There are orthodox people out there who write good stuff but may not believe exactly how you do on secondary matters (not primary issues like the Trinity, but secondary such as the mode of baptism).  Take this as a challenge to either defend or change you views.

So for my recommendations: 

The Reformation Study Bible (ESV) – I use it, love it. 

The MacArthur Study Bible (NASB)  – I use it, love it.

The ESV Study Bible – Newly published, but supposed to be very good.

There you have it.  That’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it.